Sales & Marketing.
For many bookkeeping business owners, they'd love to outsource those activities and just focus on doing the books.
But, if you're an underpaid bookkeeper, you'll have to roll up your sleeves and do the marketing and sales yourself.
This reality is a frightening thought for many introverted bookkeepers.
But, today's guest, Pure Bookkeeping co-founder, Debbie Roberts was just like you.
She hated marketing, but with help from her business coach, Peter Cook, she got over her fears and discovered some great marketing and sales tips along the way which enabled her to create a 6-figure bookkeeping business with a staff of 12 bookkeepers.
So, if she could be successful, it's possible for you too.
During this episode, you'll learn...
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How to overcome the negative mindset you have toward marketing
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Various useful strategies to attract more referrals including, approaching accountants
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The importance of having an accountability partner who pushes you out of your comfort zone and keeps you on track
To find out more about Debbie, visit the following websites:
Pure Bookkeeping - https://purebookkeeping.com/about/
Her LinkedIn page - https://www.linkedin.com/in/purebk
To gain access to the scripts mentioned in this episode - click here
EPISODE TRANSCRIPTION
Michael Palmer: 01:03 Hello and welcome back to The Successful Bookkeeper. I am so excited to have Debbie Roberts, the Co-founder of Pure Bookkeeping, the author of the EMF bookkeeper with us again as our guest today, and I'm so excited because I think this topic today is, is extremely important to every bookkeeper out there, and it is the topic of sales and marketing. So welcome Deb, back to the show.
Debbie Roberts: 01:33 Thank you, Michael. I'm very excited to be here.
MP: 01:35 Yes. And We had Deb on as our very first guest and if you're interested in hearing Deb's story, you really want to go back and listen to that. It's a, it's a remarkable story of her growing her business from solo to 12 bookkeepers growing a very profitable business and building a system dependent business such that she was able to take six weeks off at one of the most busiest times of the year and come back to a business that was running with very few bugs. So it's a really great story and I recommend you listen to that episode, but today's episode is going to be all about sales and marketing and I'm sure the listeners want to know how do you grow a bookkeeping business from a solo to write up to having a 12 bookkeepers working underneath you. And that's a lot of customers and a lot of uh, obviously sales and marketing to do Deb.
DR: 02:28 Yes. Yeah, for sure. And I never liked marketing it, which is pretty typical for most bookkeepers. We prefer to really just be just getting the work done. Then in the back office if you like, preferably being undisturbed and just getting on with the job and getting bank recs cause we can focus on that and concentrate. But to actually put yourself out there and market yourself and also selling yourself doesn't feel cold. You know, like you walk around and say hey, great, just let me tell you how good I am. That generally doesn't sit very comfortably with, with lots of bookkeepers, but it certainly didn't for me.
MP: 03:08 Yeah. And you know, when you first got started, you know this was not a natural thing for you. And as you mentioned, it's not natural for many bookkeepers because of just the, the, the way you are and, and your focus on the work. So how did it, what did it look like in the beginning? Let's start there.
DR: 03:25 Well where I started was by word of mouth referrals. I actually didn't do any marketing because I, well I actually, I guess you'd say I did do marketing, but it didn't feel like it. I just told people that I knew that I was open to business and I mentioned in a previous podcast, one of the first person I spoke to was a chiropractor who is a friend of mine and he gave me my first referral and he referred other businesses as well and I spoke to the person that I worked with at the doctor's clinic. The secretary there had her husband, I had a business and she asked me if I would do work for him, so it didn't feel like marketing. I was just talking to friends and family and just saying, look, I've decided to start my business. I've actually been taught some business cards.
DR: 04:16 Do you mind hanging onto these? And maybe if you find, if you can come across anyone who has a business and needs a bookkeeper, then feel free to pass on my business card. I'd be happy to have a chat with them. So, I did do a little bit of marketing, but it didn't feel, it felt very sad. It was in my comfort zone. But as I started to put on bookkeepers and then I started working with Kate, we needed to create momentum. We needed to be a bit more consistent and try other marketing strategies because it's one thing when you're just trying to fill your own books and you do word of mouth and maybe a couple of ads or something like that. But it's another thing when you've got a team who are expecting to get enough work. So, it's no point putting one a person if you don't have enough work for them.
DR: 05:04 So no matter what size business that you've got, whether you are a startup practice or you're a mature business already with staff, you need to create momentum around your marketing. It just creates an easier environment to generate more work more regularly. So I started working with Pete and he taught me a whole bunch of other marketing skills, but I often resisted more. He was teaching me, so we were excited for, I joined a networking group and needed to learn how to sell myself in 60 seconds. Or You, you'd stand up and make with new people and tell your message, what's a good referral for you? That was really difficult, very challenging, but one of the best experiences that I had in those early days because it stretched me out of my comfort zone. I think, marketing for me was always a bad stretching me out of my comfort zone.
DR: 06:03 I really didn't want to do it and in fact that was one of the challenges that Pete had because I would resist doing it and I would just be too busy. Your name voted comments and never quite get around to it. As we were working together, one of the strategies we had was to meet with accountants personally. I started off with my own clients, accountants, I, my existing clients and the accountants and to actually meet with them, but I would avoid doing it because I didn't feel comfortable. I felt a little bit, particularly in the early days, that lacking confidence and I felt quite intimidated by counselors. I can be intimidating and I'm just a bookkeeper. And it was all that negative kind of thoughts that were going through my mind. And here I am going to present to this account and then they know more than me and what if I make a fool of myself in it.
DR: 06:56 So you can imagine with these thoughts swimming around my mind why I would be reluctant to actually meet with accountants. And so each time I met up with Pat, he'd say, so how many accountants did you meet in the last month? And I go, well, really it was busy and I haven't quite worked out what I want to say. And, but when he was fabulous, um, I'm sure I wouldn't have overcome this, this hurdle and grown into enjoying marketing without his persistence. And what he helped me understand was that I was resisting doing it and the reasons why I was resisting. And when I understood that it's like anything, I guess that's not serving you. You Think, oh, okay, I realize now what's happening and let's create a solution to avoid that so that I will take that action regardless of how I feel.
MP: 07:48 Yeah, and well, it's first of all, I mean I have to say it's also unique. There's not a lot of bookkeepers that I've met along the way that had gone out and hired a coach and you hired one of the best coaches and Peter Cook. What was it like having Peter there to actually like, give you some of those, those skill sets and to really hold you accountable?
DR: 08:13 Oh, look, I have said, I'm sure the minute I started working with him really, that I would give him all the credit. He would say something else, I'm sure, but I wouldn't have done, I wouldn't have achieved the success that I achieved without his expertise, without his insight. He is such a perceptive person. I would be saying, Oh, a lot. I love marketing, or I just make these absolute statements about why I'm doing something or not doing something. I don't like talking to people like we're collecting money and you know, all those sorts of statements. And he would just ask me, like he would pull me up and he said, why, why, why did, why is that? It just let me understand why you feel that way. And more often than not, I wasn't even aware of what I'd said. It was just this thing that was trained in me that I, my subconscious or the words that I spoke or whatever it was, had trained me into believing something that actually wasn't the truth.
DR: 09:20 And the number of the pay funnels I had working with him, he would be always pulling me up and he forever half jokingly would say to me, you know, I did, I've made it my personal mission to take you out of your comfort zone as often as I possibly can. And she was always a little, we'd always have a bit of a giggle about that, but it was absolutely true. And he would say, right Deb, you need to meet with the counselors. And I go, ah, I want to do that. It's so I don't feel comfortable. And in, so hey, would we then work through that about why I don't feel comfortable? And then, and then he realized that the solution was to create systems around the marketing for me because I'll almost follow a system and obviously created my own, but that was the solution for helping me overcome the dread that I had around marketing because he’s absolutely right.
DR: 10:15 We knew that, that I needed to do it. Whether you love it or not, you may never love it and you need to become good at it and the more momentum, using that word again, the more momentum you create around your marketing strategies, the more systems you create, it makes it easier. So you then do things automatically rather than thinking, or will I go and meet with an accountant this week and let me think, oh no, I don't feel like it, or whatever. You put it in your diary, you make appointments, you ring the accountants, you go and meet with them and you, you create momentum. You create a system so that it takes the decision making out of it. You've already made the decision, this is what I am doing. I am meeting with accountants, right? Okay, what system do I need to create in order for me to make sure that happens while I've got a threat, a habit around ringing them. Who am I going to ring? Well I've, I met with my existing accountants, let's start off with them. It's creating momentum just makes life so much easier. You don't have to keep making decisions about whether you will or want you just, you just do.
MP 11:32 That's right. And you know, there are a very few successful people out there that are self made. They, that's a nice buzzword, self-made. But every single successful person surrounds themselves with people who have expertise, people that are smarter than them that can help them see through what they can't see. And so I think that's really great and I think it's a key that the listeners are going to want. I want to get that the power here in having a coach and having an accountability group is really to help you see what you can't see is to show you those blind spots and then hold you accountable. Yeah, I know for myself around accountability, it's really easy to, you know, go and do something that's more comfortable and then the day passes and you get 10 in days like that in a row. And next thing you know, a year has passed. And so you really, I think, you know, as I've mentioned in the earlier podcast is it really is one of your strengths in terms of being able to see that you needed to surround yourself with somebody who could help you get there.
DR: 12:38 Yes, yes. And I can honestly say that I'm growing my business and, and having that accountability, I've learned more about myself and what, what I'm capable of, then I could have possibly done in another mob time doing something else. And, and that that is a choice when you, you can choose not to pace your feet and choose not to grow and choose not to learn and discover new things. But that was what I was inspired about and what I, I knew that I didn't know everything and I was always thinking, well, what else don't I know that I don't know. And having that, it's been such a blessing to me to have grown my business, have gone through the struggles and come out the other side. I am a different person to what I was 15 years ago. There's no doubt about that. And I'm proud of that and I'm empowered by it.
MP: 13:34 Absolutely. Yeah. The uncomfortableness is, is definitely the pathway. So let's get, let's get talking to you. Obviously, you've revealed one of the years, your strategies around accountants. So let's talk a little bit more about the accountants and how that started to work for you and your business.
DR: 13:54 Yes. Yup. So the system that I created was whenever I met with a new client. Oh, so firstly you have your prospect meeting and then you decide, yes, this is the right feature and we're going to work together. And I would bring the signup phones and everything with me at that prospect presentation. So I would go prepared to signup this point. And part of the information that I gather is their accountant details and I always explain to the new client, I'm going to ring your accountant and just have a chat with them. Typically I've done a, what I call a health check of the data files, so I know what issues I can tell, what issues they might be in the data file. And I explained to the client that I'm just going to meet with the accountant to discuss those issues and also just, um, talk about each other's business and then usually pretty excited about that.
DR: 14:47 It's typically bookkeepers don't do that by the way you cater. I talk to accountants all day that they don't mind emailing an accountant with a question or, or giving them a call or something like that. Uh, typically most bookkeepers don't go to the trouble of meeting with the accountant. Uh, particularly to establish the relationship. And that was one of the systems that I created. So, meet with the client, get the account and stay towels, ring the accountant a day or so after that meeting and introduced myself, explained on the bookkeeper to jog blogs, love to make a time to meet with them. I've done a health check of their data file. I just got a couple of concerns I want to talk to you about and I'd love to find out about your target market and also to tell you a bit about more services and how else I might be able to help you.
DR: 15:34 When would be a good time to meet. That's another pretty cool question to ask is when would be able to learn to meet if you, if you say to them, give them all that information and you'd say, I'd love to meet with you. Typically accountants will say, I'd love to meet with you too, but it's just busy at the moment. Look, give me a call back in three-months time. And that's, you've lost a marketing opportunity there. So, but if you say when would, without pausing, when would be a good time for you? They are more likely to open up their calendar and book a time. Even if it is a monk or something down the track, they're more likely to do that. Then if you leave this open-ended question or leave it up to them to decide what's going to happen next.
MP: 16:15 Beautiful. So that was, that was one of the strategies.
DR: 16:26 Yeah..
MP: 16:27 That, that's gold. And that is, you know, closing the loop is so, so powerful in sales and having a next step. So you're essentially giving us all a sales class Deb, in terms of every single interaction there should be a next step. And you're absolutely right. Bookkeepers that I've worked with along the way have, you know, when they start to realize this and they start to use the systems that you created around working with accountants, they go, you know, before I would've never even fought up. So there may be listeners that are already working with accountants, but there's a lot that are going, you know what? Yeah, I work with accountants all day long, but never really thought of nurturing and building that relationship.
DR: 17:05 Yes and no. I didn't do them until I started meeting with Pete and he was saying this is a great source of referrals. They think getting clients every day that have got a miss with their bookkeeping, you need to, we need to have a system so that you do nurture those relationships.
MP: 17:22 Yeah, and you know, we've worked with a lot of accountants who have told us that they are just looking for great bookkeepers that can give them a great file so that they can do the work that's really important to them and they find it very difficult to find those bookkeepers. So it's this very odd situation where you don't normally find this great, perfect marriage of businesses that can work together for mutually beneficial outcomes. And there it is, right? Accountants. And I love that you've given away some of your strategies there. I think people will be using what you've told us so far, Deb. That's great.
MP: 17:58 And, and now that another strategy, I think it's worthwhile just speaking a little bit about what happens during that meeting that you have with the account. Cause I've got a couple of tips as well for listeners. I mentioned earlier that I found, uh, particularly in the early days because I lacked confidence and I've found accountants to be intimidating and some of them were a bit gruff as well. A bit, a bit rude, but short if you like. And when I went to the account meeting and I'd think, okay, I've thought about all the things I wanted to say about myself. I thought we'd just have this chat. But what I found was because I was intimidated and a little bit overwhelmed by, or I'd forget everything that I'd planned on saying and it was a really ineffective meeting in terms of marketing, using it as a marketing tool.
DR: 18:51 We'd have a nice chat and it'd be a get to know you and we'd talk about the client and things like that and we would walk away. I would walk away with basically nothing, as you said, I hadn't closed the sale and I spoke to Pete about this and what we did was we created another system around it and I created a PowerPoint presentation come painting. I worked on that for months and probably close to 12 months on and off where we created this PowerPoint presentation and selected the pages and what are we going to say on this page and we need to present the problems and what's the solution and what service you provide and things like that. And then I would go with that PowerPoint presentation and meet with accountants and use it basically. And then when I came out of the presentation, I'd will feel quite comfortable.
DR: 19:40 Or when I said that, I just noticed something. So I'd go back to Pete and say, this didn't feel comfortable when I said that. And I think it would be better in this order because of that. So we worked on this on and off for 12 months and eventually created a PowerPoint presentation, which was actually in the pure bookkeeping system now. So what I recommend is that before you go to your accountant meeting, prepare for it. And for me, I felt more comfortable having something in Denver only dot points. You might use your computer, you could flip open your laptop or an iPad and have something that will remind you of that, what you want to say. So, so there's big prepared. I think typically most bookkeepers prefer to be prepared. Um, we don't like to be, you know, something can lift a field and set us off bad.
DR: 20:32 Then one of the critical things in terms of closing the sale, so closing the sale in an accounting meeting is ideally getting a referral so that there's two questions you need to ask at the end of the accounting presentation. And the first one is probably reasonably obvious and that is, can you think of any other clients now who might need my services? So that's, that's a fairly obvious one because you've just told him all about your services. You may or may not get in front of that. For me of it. I often didn’t get a referral immediately from that, but I at least sowed the seed that's what the expectation was. The second question and for me in some respects was even more important was do you know any other accountants who are also having trouble finding good bookkeepers? Because I'd love to meet with them and tell them about the services that I offer.
DR: 21:25 Those two questions. That's basically closing the sale. Accountants talk to each other all the time and they talk to each other about the issues that they are having. Finding a good bookkeeper and they're all knights and all in the same networking groups and industry associations and things like that. I try to get a name straight away from that. If not, the next thing that you need to do within a week of that at that meeting is to send the accountant an email and just saying, you know, if that Dramani in that, those two questions, if you think of any, any clients, feel free to pass on my business card or send them my phone number and I'd love to meet with other accountants as well. So if you can think of another accountant who's having problems in, please pass on my details. So you need to follow up from the meeting as well.
MP: 22:20 Excellent. And I really love that. And you know, bookkeepers, I'm guessing depth would be a strong suit really is that they are detail-oriented. So you know these follow ups and after the sale and before and the prep work and all of that, these are taking care of their really important details and that's what people respect when they see that kind of behavior in a meeting. And when they see the professional presentation and then the followup, it just, it said signals about what they can expect if they were, you know, to continue to work with you or to refer business to you.
DR: 22:56 Yeah, and I think one of the stories typical capers tell themselves is that they've been pushy. So if they ask those two questions at the end of the presentation or if they follow up with a phone call or an email a week later, they feel they're being pushy. And that's not true. That's as you just said, that's actually being professional.
MP: 23:20 You got that debt. That's where I want to jump in and say, okay, that's where we need to help the bookkeepers go beyond what their norm is. Because yeah, if you're not going to blow your own horn, nobody's going to, and that, that is universal across all industries. No one's going to just walk up and give you business just because you're there. You have to get out there, you have to put yourself out there and you have to ask for business and put yourself out there. And, and that's what you're talking about is exactly that. And it doesn't matter if it's business, it doesn't matter if it's music, it doesn't matter if it's an art that has to happen if you're going to get known and attract business to your, your business.
DR: 24:05 Yes. And I've got another little true story of, of one of the licensees actually though I'd like to share because I think that's appropriate for this, this topic, I was talking to her about this exact thing and asking those questions in two questions at the end and she said, I know a lady who I know is in business and we were actually at a barbecue together and in the back of her mind she was thinking, I need to ask her who's looking after your bookkeeping? Or if she's coping okay with their bookkeeping, I need to ask her. I need to. But she couldn't actually bring herself to asking that question. And we spoke about that and I talked about what's actually going on in that. She's worried that the woman might behave or react badly or get angry or she's afraid of something and all that sort of thing.
DR: 25:01 And I said, that's not true. That won't happen. All you're asking is as a professional, you're asking another person who's in business who's looking after their bookkeeping fall. So I said, so despite how you feel, regardless of how you feel, the next time you see that woman, just ask the question. So step into that place. And she sent me an email the next time, and this is only last week, and she said, I've got some exciting news. I did what you said. I saw the woman cause they said the kids are at the same school and you know, they hang out together in the same places. And she said, I just went out to her and I said, look, you know that I've been doing bookkeeping for a while. I just thought I'd ask you who's looking after your bookkeeping? And the woman just said, it's an absolute disaster.
DR: 25:52 I cannot cope with it. I just don't know what to do. Would you be able to help me? Wow. And she was so excited. It was such an amazing meeting. I was so thrilled for this because that little Wayne, each time you do that and step into that place, you get a little wind and you go high five, your courage builds, your confidence builds, and then you're prepared to take a bolder step next time. So stepping into that place, you're being professional, you got attention to detail. You're following through with the process and it's nothing else. If your mind is telling you any of the story, it is not true and don't yell
MP: 26:38 Yeah, that is a layer cake story. We need, we need to look at these wonderful layers of this story because you know, number one, you mentioned that it gives you confidence to put yourself out there and do something that makes you uncomfortable. It gives you confidence and yeah, it won't be comfortable and yes, you know, you, you had one of the people in our community that's the power of a community belonging to a powerful community. They reached out to you, you said You provided mentorship and support and you helped them. So don't, don't do it alone. Down another layer is think of this woman, she's a business person, she's in turmoil, she's probably sitting there at night waking up going, what am I going to do? And maybe she's even afraid to ask for help. So you're doing the world a favor when you're going out there and giving people the gift of the work that you do.
MP: 27:33 And that, and then the last layer that occurs to me right now is if you're a great bookkeeper, you owe it to business owners like her to toot your own horn and get out there and find them and help them. Because if you don't, you're really, you're leaving people. There's not, there's a lot of bookkeepers out there, but they're not all great and they're not all working with business owners that need them. And there's a massive need in the marketplace. So there are all these great reasons to, to go out there and put yourself out there and do like this woman has done, which made herself uncomfortable. And the outcome is extraordinary. Yeah, it's very exciting. So that's a, thanks for that story. That's fantastic. So there's a lot here and I'm thinking we're going to have to get you back on another episode to get into some more of these marketing and sales tactics.
MP: 28:26 I mean, we've really only just started to talk about putting yourself out there and this whole concepts of accountants and I know we're, we're almost up to it and where we like to keep these, these podcasts. So can we have your back again, Deb, and let's get into some of these other strategies. I really, really on behalf of all the listeners, I want to thank you so much for, for joining us on this episode of The successful bookkeeper. For everyone, all our listeners, you can find us at Thesuccessfulbookkeeper.com we'd love to hear what you think on iTunes. If you go to Thesuccessfulbookkeeper.com/reviews you'll be able to find out how to leave a review. And if you leave your information and let us know that you've given us a review, we'll shoot you over a copy free of charge, no credit card necessary, a copy of the successful bookkeeper.
MP: 29:17 We're doing that for a limited time with the launch of this podcast community and as well Deb, I'm wondering would you be okay with it if we were to give a couple of the scripts that you had talked about in this podcast, if we put that in the members section of our community, so for listeners, if they were to go and sign up for our community, you'd get access to all the free resources as well. We'll add some of those that you've talked about today. Does that sound good, Deb?
DR: 29:30 That's perfect. More than happy to share. Absolutely.
MP: 29:45 So thank you so much and I think it'll be really valuable. So get on over to Thesuccessfulbookkeeper.com sign up for our community, get access to some really valuable resources. They're going to help you be the successful bookkeeper that you've always wanted to be.
MP: 30:01 So thanks again. Goodbye and we will see you next time. Bye for now.
