Are you determined to having a successful bookkeeping business?
If you are, you'll have to commit to doing things that are likely out of your comfort zone.
One of them is networking.
For many bookkeepers, this is a terrifying task.
But, you know what?
Networking is necessary and effective.
Just ask, Pure Bookkeeping co-founder, Debbie Roberts.
In the early days of her business, she remembers being afraid of networking, but once she realized that mastering it could lead to more clients, she worked on her confidence and communication skills then the referrals began to roll in.
You can do the same.
During this interview, you'll learn...
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Strategies on how to successfully approach people at an event even if you're scared
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The power of Givers Gain & not focusing on helping yourself first when networking
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The qualities of a great networking group and where to find them
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Why business coaches can be an incredible referral source for your business
To find out more about Debbie visit http://www.purebookkeeping.com/au/about.
To access her 60 second infomercial networking script, sign up for our free resources.
EPISODE TRANSCRIPTION
Michael Palmer: 01:00 Welcome back to another episode of The Successful Bookkeeper. I am your host, Michael Palmer, and I am so excited to have Debbie Roberts back. She is the co-founder of pure bookkeeping, the Co-author of the EMF bookkeeper, and I'm really excited to be talking about today, this whole concept of networking because I think it's one of the most valuable things that a bookkeeper and do with their time. If you're looking to attract great clients into your business. So welcome Debbie.
Debbie Roberts: 01:34 Thanks, Mike. Well, I'm thrilled to be here.
MP: 01:36 Yes. And we've had you on for a few episodes. I know we're going to have you on a whole bunch and I've actually had some questions coming in from our community that they'd like us to tackle on future episodes. So we're going to have you back a whole bunch.
DR: 01:52 That'd be great. I'd love to be part of it.
MP: 01:54 Yeah. So Debbie, networking and I know, you know, having worked with you for a while and heard your story, networking is incredibly important. So tell me a little bit and share with the listeners how networking helped you build your successful bookkeeping business.
DR: 02:13 Yes, it was, um, it was a really important decision I made to join a networking group when I was first starting my business. The first strategy marketing strategy I used was to tell everyone that I knew, um, that I was open for business. And I've spoken about that before in previous podcasts. When it got to the stage, someone actually mentioned to me how about joining a networking group? And actually, I didn't even know what a networking group was or whether networking was important to grow a business. I was quite naive in business. I'd been an employee before that so I didn't know how the business worked. And I'd started doing some research in my local area and came across an organization called BNI Business Network International. It is an international organization that lots of chapters here in Australia as well as the rest of the world. And what you're able to do with the BNI is to go along to a couple of meetings and try them out, seeing if you like the group, um, if it's, if it seems vibrant and it's all happening and these referrals going and things like that and you can actually try out a few different groups in your area.
DR: 03:31 Um, when I, um, approached BNI in Australia, they weren't actually a chapter in my area and they asked me if I would help start a group in, in the area. And that was a story in itself because at that took an extra, probably, um, at least six to 12 months to actually get a group off the ground before we could even start networking. But, I was prepared to commit that time because I really wanted something in my area. Right. I knew that if I had other members in this in my area that it's likely that the referrals that I would get would also be in my area. So otherwise, you end up traveling all over the place. If you're in another group that's in the next city or something like that. Next suburb, um, you can spend waste too much time cause you'll get referrals in that area.
DR: 04:27 So I'll only want in mind, I want to one in my own area, there wasn't one. So the oh well let's stop on it. And uh, there was a half a dozen others that were put down no interest and then we were basically knocking on doors and making calls to other businesses in the area just to invite them along to the networking group. Yeah, it was, it was quite a big job cause I want to launch or at that time I'd assume that the rule is still the same until there are at least 12 members. The more members you have in the group, the more dynamic it is. The more stuff happens, the more referrals go around and just it's got the energy of itself is so when you're looking at a networking group, you don't want just to have it as in people. That's not enough to make it happen.
DR: 05:14 You need something where, and there are people chatting and they handing out business cards and they're inviting guests to come along. It is a commitment. They and I are a commitment. It's a weekly meeting. Um, it's usually at breakfast or for breakfast around about that time. And you're also expected to meet with each of the other members outside of that breakfast. They used to call them dads cards. I don't know if they still do that now. One on one coffees if you like. And the purpose of that is to really start to get to know people. Like you go to the meetings and they go for an hour and a half or two hours with other times you do your networking, have you, but you don't really get to know people in those meetings. It's like getting the business done, the business of introducing yourself and handing out referrals and what have you.
DR: 06:07 When you meet with each person separately for a coffee somewhere yet another tea, another time in the week, that's when you start to get to know people. The referrals generally don't start from day one. Referrals as with referrals to anyone at any time. Do you usually refer to someone that you trust? So it's, it's a piece of your, your reputation. If you're going to refer someone, you're saying, look, you can rely upon, you can trust my word on this I, I'm referring this person. So there's a little piece of you that goes with each referral. So if you don't know that person, then you don't. You don't know if you can trust them. Can you actually give your word that this person is going to do what they sell? So the purpose of these one-on-one dance cards is to actually find out about the other person, the other member, but also to convey your message and your unique selling point and, and your integrity and who you are and what you're gonna do when your service offering and that sort of thing.
DR: 07:13 So yeah, there, there is quite a commitment with these. But the thing I loved about the BNI, there's a couple of really, um, priceless I think benefits I got from attending the group. And one of them was because I had never net worth before with other business owners. It was just being around other business owners that were doing stuff that we're going about their business, that were growing their business, that some of them were doing really unusual stuff in professions that I'd never heard on or industries I've never heard of before. So I actually took a genuine interest in each person and to find out about what their business was like and where was it that they were having their struggles. And, and then you talk about the bookkeeping and that's, it's a very easy conversation to have when you say, well, who's managing your bookkeeping for you? And find out about whether they are doing it themselves or a family member. Often they've members that do attend small business owners. They may have one or two staff or they may not have any staff. They may have a home office, so they kind of often starting up in business and just getting on their feet themselves.
MP: 08:27 Wow.
DR: 08:36 You've said a few things, Deb, I've, I've got to point out some things that I think are just absolutely, I want the listeners to two d so deep into their psyche here. Number one, sort of moving backward, I think you mentioned you had a genuine interest in those businesses. I want to give everybody permission to just get about other people's business because when, as a bookkeeper, that's the whole bit, it's to drive value. You've got to be interested in what they're up to, where they are going and how it works. I mean that's only just valuable. So it's this whole concept of being curious, which I think is, is got to be one of the depths of your superpower for sure. But as well, this whole concept of the group that you built, you know, I always say that any group, any networking group, it's not about the group per se, whether it be an I or the Chamber of Commerce or a group that you just put together.
MP: 09:30 It's really about the people that are in that groups and they, and you said, you know that you got, you actually worked with a few other people to build a specific group of people that would be able to make this, this fly. And as well there were people that you got to know and, and that it was a lot of time. And that's that investment of time that I think is so critical. Like if we think about friends are best friends that we have in our lives are ones where we invested the most time simply because of we, and usually, it happens when you're younger, right? You have more time, you're at school and you're doing different things, but you're investing time. And getting to know who they are and they're spending time getting to know who you are. And so this investment, it is an investment and it is a lot of time, but if done right, it's extremely valuable. And like you're saying is there's some, some absolute gold in there. So I think it's really interesting your journey of how you created all of that.
DR: 10:33 Yeah. Yeah. Look and I think the other, you know, the other unexpected benefit that I got from these meetings was confidence. Remember that I had been an employee and I was just starting my business and I really didn't have, I didn't know what networking was. And to get out of my comfort zone and go and actually meet with people and talk about them and find out how do you actually draw information from people. And then at BNI you need to stand up. Every member gets to stand up and do what they call a 62nd infomercial, which is basically your value proposition, what it is that you are offering and what it is that you do in 60 seconds and what is a good referral for you in that particular week. And you need to be able to create different messages each week. So you've got to find a different way of saying what else that you do that is going to resonate with a person for that particular week.
DR: 11:37 So I actually stand up and do a little, and that's was only a 62nd informational, but to do in my view a little bit of public speaking was absolutely terrifying and to find different ways to articulate what my message was. That was another stretch to go, okay, what is it that I'm going to say this week about my business that's going to educate the other members here about that? So, so big confidence to get up and stand up and say that. And then every probably about, depending on the number of members, maybe twice a year you're actually required to do a 10-minute presentation. And that was absolutely terrifying for me to actually get up. And, and once again, public speaking better the next level and, and then preparing for that and the confidence. And that was definitely facing my fears and pushing through that and coming out the other side of that all working, working out really well, that that was a great confidence builder for me because it was an unexpected benefit.
MP: 12:43 Yeah, that's, that's really, I think a, a great point to take away is it's not just about going and getting a bunch of referrals. That's not how it works, right? It's not a place to go and say, Oh, I'm just going to go over there and get some business because yeah, I know. Uh, BNI and, and the philosophy, I love the philosophy its givers gain is that you're going there really to help other businesses be successful by getting to know who they are and finding opportunities for them and referring those people. Now you don't refer people that you don't think are good people to refer to. That's, you know, that's not the point of it. Right. But you've got this added benefit of the confidence and really getting a whole big group of people to know what you are all about and what your business is all about. But I have heard people say, you know, they try BNI and they didn't get any value that didn't, you know, didn't work for them. What do you think the roadblocks are for people with BNI?
DR: 13:46 I think one of the first roadblocks is that people expect something to happen immediately or it wouldn't say immediately, like in the first two or three months they were saying, well, why have I got a referral yet? There is no time frame for that. It's persistence and patience. You just keep going and keep doing it. I, I actually like the analogy of sewing seats. Every person that I meet, every referral I give, I'm just sowing a seat. I have an expectation of receiving something, but I don't know when or where that's going to pop up. But it always does and it, and it often surprises me where it does pop up because it is a, an investment as well. You've got to pay for the membership and then there's the breakfast and you definitely need to be tracking all of that, uh, of what your costs are, which includes your time as well.
DR: 14:39 Keep a detailed track, whether it's an excel spreadsheet or some other, um, online program of where you're spending your time and how much it's costing you as an investment into your business and work at how many referrals you would need and what type of referrals you would need to cover those costs that not ease your mind a bit as well when you go, oh, okay. I know that the, with the upfront investment and the cost of the breakfast, the coffees, the hour here, the two hours there, and you work all that out, I need to get three daily await clients in a year to cover those costs or whatever the number is when you work it out based on your own. Right. And that I think will be when you do, when you've got some, uh, something precise about what it is that you need to break even if you like.
DR: 15:33 And anything above that is going to be your profit. Don't expect it all to happen within a few months. It can take much longer than that. It could take up to six months before you start getting referrals. But I'll tell you once, once you do start that, it's like the flood, you, you, you let go the day and the day role. Um, it, they will still, they will come. It's, it's about people building trust. And remember we're talking about bookkeeping, we're talking about people's finances. It's quite intimate in many respects because people are so guarded about their, their finances, whether it's business or personal. So you're coming into a part of someone's world, which is usually fairly guarded and protected and now they're asking you to come into their world. And also when you think about it in a networking group, typically what happens is people will start using you, your themselves in their out so that other members will start using you. And they'll try you out and then they'll feel more comfortable to refer you out to other people. And sometimes there's a little concerned that if it doesn't work out and you're in this membership group and you know, the BNI, it can be a bit awkward, but all you can do in that regard is obviously do the best that you can. Their clients just like anyone else. So you would treat them in the same way.
MP: 16:53 Yeah. That's great. It is interesting. There are lots of different businesses in their insurance banking, um, legal, uh, coaches counting tens. It's, it's all over the place. And so it's a, a big spectrum, which is really exciting. But what's cool is that every business needs bookkeeping. So it's one of those really fantastic opportunities, I think, to find a, a really good group and to nurture that group and build relationships with those people. I think it's, it's, in my mind it's a no brainer. If a bookkeeper is really serious about growing their business, this is one area that you have to find and invest in. Now talk a little bit about this, you know, how do you know if you've found a good group of people?
DR: 17:46 It's an energy about the group. I believe I've, I've tried lots of different groups before I realized that I wanted one in my area. And you'd know it yourself when you go into a little, even if it's a social event, you go into a party or something like that and the energy's kind of down and it's all a little bit quiet and people are not really engaging and things like that. And then you go into another group where it's all happening and people are having exciting conversations and they're happy and laughing and interacting with each other. It's a feeling in the group. I can't be more specific in that, that you can, you can sense it about this group. It's how you're welcomed into the group being introduced to other people. How would those plastic or la? and as I said, you can go to a couple of groups and, and test this out.
DR: 18:39 Um, also look at the other uh, business categories that are in the chapters that you visiting. What, what you get are little clusters within the membership base as well that often refer to each other. So a little cluster would be an accountant, a bookkeeper, a financial planner, a business coach. You mentioned Michael. The reason I say business coaches because they obviously are dealing with clients and you're trying to advise them about their business and often the clients are in a financial mess and the business coach can advise them about what decisions to make because they don't know the numbers. So as coaches, business coaches are a good source of referrals and if you get these little costs or groups, then you can find referrals for these people. They just whizz around, then it's much easier to find referrals.
MP: 19:38 That's really fantastic. And so creative. Deb, you know, I, I am a business coach and have been for a very long time and just to hear it put that way and as a cluster for working like you, you get the account and we've talked about it. It's in one of her previous episodes about the relationship with accountants, but the business coach is a really interesting one that I don't think I fully thought about and I like it. I think there are so much value and almost partnership that can happen between a coach, a business coach, of course, and a bookkeeper to be able to cross-refer and really drive a lot of value for businesses out there. Absolutely. Yeah. That's it. That's, that is gold. That is gold. I think the listeners are going to get that. So finding these clusters one a phenomenal idea. Yeah. Now I would also think like you hear people complain about being social, it's just a bunch of people being social. Is there anything around the age of a group?
DR: 20:42 No. No. There's some that who organize now, but the one that
MP: 20:48 I have a motor. You got it? Yep.
DR: 20:49 Yeah. That's one. Hey, you said it's knit working. It's not knit breakfasting or it's not knit socialising it's knit working. So you're there to work and so you go there with a purpose and everyone goes there for a purpose. You do get to know people. That's part of building trust is you do actually want to get to know that person, not just their business, but you want to go there with a purpose and make sure that you get the information. I don't think it, certainly with demographics it doesn't matter about that in the group. Sometimes groups can get stale. That definitely can happen and I changed my group after a couple of years after two and a half years and went to another group for another couple of years because I felt like I was getting styled. I just felt like I needed to hang around with some different paper. I don't know, I just felt like I was getting the style and I moved to another chapter. So if you are in a chapter for a couple of days and you feel like all being on now on the big Todd or me, it's, it's a bit of an effort. So you start making excuses about why you don't want to go and maybe instead of not going maybe the choices to fond another check, uh and, and go in the fresh. It's just like starting all over again.
MP: 22:05 Could you do then just start the whole process on the, you'll be that much more experienced?
DR: 22:14 Well, I like that concept of when you feel like you've gotten stale to find something new. I think there's something else there that I hear as well is that it is an intention that you have and it is a very powerful intention that you're going there to be successful. And I think that's one of your key success. Another one of them, there's many that we've even uncovered in this call is, is this intention of I'm going there, the work I'm going there for my business. This is what my business needs, and as well, I'm going there to help other businesses. And so when you bring that energy, it must be a breath of fresh air for all of the people that you're working with. So I think that's the part of the mindset which goes into it with this intention of making it successful.
DR: 23:04 If we go into things thinking, oh, you know what, I'm going to go dip my toe in the pool and hopefully this will work. I'm going to try it out. It's not going to work. It's the language you used is I'm going there to work, I'm finding a group that's fresh, that's gonna make this happen, that's gonna build relationships with all these different people in the community and it's going to be successful and it's going to make me successful and I'm willing to invest the time because I know I'm going to be successful.
MP: 23:25 Yeah, that's fantastic, Deb.
DR: 23:33 Yes, and I think that what you said before about the givers guy and I absolutely that was one of the things that I always cherished about the bay and I gave us guidance and we're like, so whenever I meet with someone is all about giving an all about finding out their business and as I said, being curious about it and how can I solve a problem? Do you have a problem with the bookkeeping? Let me see if I can solve that for you. So it was was me giving, knowing that I'm, at some point, as I said, seed sown, it's got, we're going to gain that a, it will pop up somewhere, a referral will pop up. You get a client, you just keep doing it and you do it often enough and you do it with enough passion and commitment to benefiting the other members of the group. You cannot avoid. But gaining from that, it will just bless you in so many ways.
MP: 24:24 Yeah. Uh, I think there's a lot of gold there. Let's, let's talk about, you know, the, there's, it's not just BNI as well, there are other ways to network. Let's, let's maybe throw a few of those ideas out there that people can start to look at and share any experiences that you've had, Deb.
DR: 24:42 Yeah. The guard went to the occasional, as you mentioned before, Markel, chamber of Commerce meeting. So the local chamber of commerce, and you can contact your local councils over there, Michael.
MP: 24:56 Yeah, they're, they're like business improvement associations. Who got the Chamber of Commerce, the municipalities. The Cha. Yeah. You got it.
DR: 25:04 Yeah, you can. And I know, I'm definitely Google networking groups are mothers networking groups. You know, there's, there's so many out there now that's, that's possible for you to join up. There's the, there are two things that, one is yes, BNI, it is an investment, a financial investment upfront. There are other networking groups that you can just turn up and, and do that, but they may only meet once a month. Now the downside to the other types of meetings is that they meet irregularly, um, or it might be once a month or something like that. One of the benefits of BNI is that you get to know people a lot quicker because you're going every week. Um, so things can tend to happen faster with that. You, you build trust quicker. So that's the advantage of being on with the other groups.
DR: 25:59 If you're going to attend another networking group. Uh, I was actually speaking to a bookkeeper only recently about this and she said, I went to a networking group and just stood there kind of with a glass in her hand and on the side of the wall, not game enough to go up. What am I going to talk about? I don't, you know, she was really nervous about just meeting with people and I said, just go up to someone who then you know anyone that you think looks like someone you'd like to meet and just say, hi, this is me. This is what I do. What's your name? What's Your Business? And then ask them questions about their business and be inquisitive, be curious. As Michael said, I'm very curious, I want to know about other people. So don't go to these networking groups. Um, with the aim of I want to get a referral from this group.
DR: 26:52 It's, it's about finding out about that person that you're talking to. Finding out literature, Brian, tick over as this speaking. Is this someone that sounds like I'd like to do business with? Is this in an industry that I'd like to work with? Then you can feed in at some point about how do they ask that question, how are they managing their bookkeeping? Who looks after that for them? Um, that will either be an absolute disaster because it's the, they're not coping with it at all. And then you can share business cards or they'll say, oh no, my bookkeeping is all under control. I've got a fabulous bookkeeper. But you found out about the business, you've taken their business card in any as I always take a business card of those people that I meet and, but you're finding out it has been doing most of the talking you do a little bit about your business and this is what I do.
DR: 27:39 But get the other person to do the talking and, and make sure if you, sometimes there's I'm networking groups with accountants as well. They can be very useful. But you've made sure that you find out about their business, get them talking and again, use the same strategy asking the question, do they have trouble finding good bookkeepers? That's a fabulous leading question that you could ask any other, any accountant and make sure you get the business card, um, in those networking meetings that are irregular or only once a month or something like that. You take as many cards as you can, meet as many people as you can and always follow them up the following week with an email or another phone call. If you think this might be something more to that, give him a call and just say, hi, we met last week. It was fabulous. I thought I'd follow up. You mentioned that you were having trouble finding good bookkeepers. I'd love to make time to meet with you. And that goes into the conversation that I had in there with that we had with the previous podcast about meeting with accountants. Yeah.
MP: 28:51 Yeah, absolutely. And you said a couple of things there that jumped out at me was, you know, there's the whole point of transacting with people is that people want to transact with people that, that they know, like, and trust. And so networking initially is all about the like component because you don't want to go in there and just be saying, oh, this is me and this was all about me. People like to talk about themselves. They actually don't care. Nobody cares about anybody else but themselves. Right? That's kind of a default. And so when you ask questions of other people about themselves and what's it they're interested in and how they're doing and let get them talking, they instantly will like you because they're talking about themselves. They like that and you're, you're associated with that. So that's a real, you know, it's a move and that's a move right?
DR: 29:43 Way Back to Dale Carnegie's work and a, and, and a fantastic book. I mean it's a little outdated now, but some gold in there around having people, you know, be interested in other people that will lead them to like you and then you'll have an opportunity for them to get to know you and then eventually trust you and, and you'll be great partners. And that other piece step is, is absolutely right following up. I mean, you know, cards will just end up in the dump in the garbage. Uh, but if you make a meaningful connection and you follow up with them and you continue to provide value, then it's, it's really good. I have a friend that does the send out cards. It's a company where you can send out these cards quite easily. And the first time I met her, she took my card and, and we're at this event and it was a cool event and she sent me this card with a whole bunch of pictures of the event and said it was really nice to meet me.
DR: 30:35 And it's like, you know what? Like I still have that card. It's up on my, it's up on my wall. I mean, that's powerful. That's me. That's me now. I like her. It's like she's like takes you, she pictures sends me pictures of me and talking about the event, it's like I like her and guess what? I'm getting to know her really well and, and um, eventually I'm going to trust her and want to work with her. Yeah. So it's a lot of cool moves there that you've brought up today. And I know for our, our members and the people that have taken the work that you've done and followed in your footsteps, they've, they've got incredible results. Let's just talk about a little bit about how the impact of this was on your business from a financial standpoint. Yep.
DR: 31:18 I'll look at it, it made a huge difference to my business market. Gave me a good starting point, a good solid foundation for growth. Um, after I was in BNI for four and a half years, I've been focused on, after I worked out all my value proposition and got all the, what I felt as I got as much value out of BNI as I could. I've been focused on accountants. I mean, I'd always been networking with accountants, but I've focused on that, that one source of referrals after that point. But it certainly guides me. My kickstart, um, took me from, uh, being a sole trader and working on my own to being able to feed other bookkeepers. I started to bring in other bookkeepers at that time while I was working in the networking group. And yeah, it really gave me a good kickstart, a to the next stage.
MP: 32:10 Beautiful. I mean, it's fantastic. I mean, I know some, some people that we've worked with this is their whole business is just BNI. So BNI and well primarily they, I mean there are other networking groups that, as we've mentioned that have worked, but that's the one I want to point out something, you know, I, it has, there's an investment that you have to make through. It's a cost. I mean obviously the lunches and the, sorry, the breakfast, you've got to eat somewhere, right? So that's, I don't even take that into consideration. It's your time and you're paying actual money to belong to this group. That's important because what that does is it puts skin in the game for everyone. And when their skin in the game, when you pay for something, it puts a certain amount of energy into something that, that will come back to you in equal value.
DR: 33:02 I mean, life is a, a mirror. It gives back what we put into it. So one of the mindsets I think that people can look at is how can you find an area or opportunities where you can invest in your business and invest as much as you can. The more you invest in your business, the more of the business will give back to you. And I think BNI really has demonstrated that that is part of its winning formula is that people actually are paying, they're more serious about it. They've got skin in the game. And so, um, I hope people will get that. That's, that's a bonus. If something's free, guess what? You're going to get free out of it and you're putting a lot of investment of your time into it. You want to make sure that it flies. So that's my take on a, on paid.
MP: 33:46 Um, and I mean I've belonged to, uh, call them masterminds, but they are, they are a part of, you know, getting to know other people in the industries. But you know, I've paid $10,000 a year to belong to these even more in some cases when you start to look at some of the other things that we had to pay for. And so it's, it's like a 10 fold that I got back from belonging to those groups. So the more you invest, the better things that you invest in it. We'll just come back to, to your business as long as you're making the right investments and you're following through. Yes, absolutely. This has been absolutely fantastic Deb, and you know, we've just been one of our longer ones and so I want to really thank you for joining us today and, and sharing all about this whole concept of networking and powerful. I know, um, what I'd like to do is ask if we can perhaps give a little bit of a sample from the work that you do with pure bookkeeping and we can have that available for people at our website at Thesuccessfulbookkeeper.com. Would that be, would that be cool?
DR: 34:52 Yes. I've got a, a script for the 62nd infomercial. Beautiful. They give them a guideline as to what they might say, be happy to shave.
MP: 35:01 Excellent. Well, so for listeners, there's some, some gold there. There's a script. Go to Thesuccessfulbookkeeper.com sign up, join our community and you will get access to a whole bunch of resources that we give away and that we put out there for from all of our guests. Uh, but that will be available and attached to this episode number. So please do that and a, and thank you, Deb. Thanks for joining us.
DR: 35:45 Thanks, Michael. Thrilled to be here.
MP: 35:55 It's great. So that's another episode of The Successful Bookkeeper. Please go to iTunes and give us an honest review of what you think about the podcast. Uh, you can go to Thesuccessfulbookkeeper.com/reviews where you can get all the information on how to do that. And as well, leave us a question or a challenge that you're faced with. We'd love to have that be a part of our future shows and give us a direction in terms of what kind of content you'd like to hear from us. You can go to the successful bookkeeper.com/questions it's really simple. You just press a button, make a recording, and it will enter your information and it will send it right over to our email. And so super easy to do. And so that's it for this episode and we look forward to catching you next time. Take care.
MP: 36:18 Bye for now.
DR: 36: 25 Bye Bye.
