Goal setting.
Yes, it can be hard.
It requires deep analysis of what you truly want to acquire, why you haven't achieved it yet and how you'll go about making your dreams a reality.
Our guest today knows how to master the fine art of successfully setting and executing goals.
Pure Bookkeeping co-founder and the co-author of The E-Myth Bookkeeper, Debbie Roberts wouldn't have achieved her great wins without determining her destination first.
During this interview, you'll learn...
The importance of taking time to evaluate what you want to achieve
Why you should work backwards when figuring out how to accomplish your goals
Why you'll need an accountability partner to keep you focused
To learn more about Debbie, visit here.
For information regarding Pure Bookkeeping, click this link.
To find out about the useful content mentioned in this episode, sign up for our free resources.
Michael Palmer: 01:08 Welcome back to The Successful Bookkeeper podcast. I am your host, Michael Palmer, and this week's episode, we are going to be talking about goals now. Goals. It doesn't matter if it's January if it's July or it's December. Goals seem to be a conversation that we're either having or thinking about or trying to work into our lives. And today I've got an amazing guest who's been on our podcast several times. She is none other than Debbie Roberts, the co-author of E-myth Bookkeeper. She is also the co-founder of Pure Bookkeeping. And she is one hell of a great bookkeeper and an advocate of bookkeepers around the world. She loves bookkeepers and she loves seeing bookkeepers succeed so they, she is the perfect guest to have on the show. Welcome back, Debbie.
Debbie Roberts: 02:03 Oh, thank you so much Michael, and thank you for that introduction. That's very gracious of you.
MP: 02:08 Yes. Well you're, you're doing great. Work with the community all over the world. So, Deb, we decided to talk about goals today. What, what's, what's on your mind around goals?
DR: 02:19 Well, um, as you said it, it doesn't matter what time of the year that you, you do set your goals, but it is the beginning of the year. So I started to think about the time when I was working with Peter Cook. Every year in January, we had a full day meeting, a planning meeting. I didn't particularly like them because it was difficult to think about the goals and plan your vision and where do you want to be and things like that. I always struggled with that. And yet we still had them though. And I thought, look at to the community about the importance of setting goals, find out why they're struggling with that. Help them identify where they're struggling and what they need to do to overcome that. So, uh, but it doesn't matter if it is the beginning of the year, but it doesn't matter what time of the year. You've just got to do it.
MP: 03:15 Absolutely. And, um, what was it about those all-day planning sessions that, that, I mean, I think that's probably uncommon for a lot of our listeners. Talk a little bit about what you did during those all-day planning sessions.
DR: 03:30 Well, part of it was reviewing how did we go last year? So did I reach the targets that I had set for last year and then what, what didn't work then why did I miss certain targets? Where did I do well? What could I do better? So there was quite a bit of time spent reviewing the past year and you know, that took several hours and probably even half the day because it was right down into the detail. It was things like if I didn't hit my meet with, uh, four accountants a week and I didn't hit that, why didn't I hit that? What was it that got in the way of that? And really dig deep into the psychology of that was I avoiding it and if I was avoiding it, why and how can we, um, resolve that so that I don't avoid the things that I don't want to do, which is pretty common. And then the other half of the day was planning what we wanted to achieve in the next year. We had already set goals for three and five years. So what we did was we would just review those, are we still on track? Is that really what I really, what I want in three to five years. And uh, and I'd tweak that if it did, didn't quite align and then we would plan specific goals for the next year, nine months, six months, three months, and monthly goals. So it was really quite specific and, and very detailed.
MP: 04:58 It's an, it's a, it, it really is extraordinary. The level of detail and the amount of time and energy you put into it. This is not common, I would say, not a common behavior in most businesses.
DR: 05:12 Oh yeah. Yeah. And I think absolutely. And it's surprising that despite the fact that everyone will have heard that you need to set goals, it's something that not, yeah, it's not very common and not very common in the bookkeeping industry specifically.
MP: 05:29 Yeah. Not very common. Now let's talk a little bit about your results specifically because your results are not common either. Back in back in the day. This is 10, if we're talking 10 or 15 years ago in terms of the, when you were doing this planning and work, uh, for the listeners that maybe this is our first episode, talk a little bit about where you went and where you, you, you actually went to with your business.
DR: 05:53 Oh, well, I started off as a sole trader on my own and just working from home with zero clients, I was an employee. I had a job as an employee and I kept that job. And then I grew my business over. Um, and two I had a black belt business and um, a dozen staff at that time. And of course, I made every conceivable mistake along the way. So, and Peter Cook helped me overcome those, those issues and eventually sell my business in 2014. So this goal stuff works. It does. Oh look, w eighties. I can't overemphasize it and I get that it's not a comfortable thing to do. And I'd actually like to talk a little bit about that because it's the, it's the one thing that stops us from doing this and, and it's kind of passively resisting. It's not like you, you say, I'm not going to set goals.
DR: 06:53 You don't make it a statement or anything. You just passively resist doing it. So you just find ways, oh yeah, well I want to grow my business. Yes, I'm going to grow so you can be vague about it. I am going to grow my business. That's vague. That's not a goal because there are, and there's no figure about what dollar you want to turn over or how many staff you want to have or how many clients you want to have, how many bookkeeping hours you're going to bill out. All those sorts of details. You just say I want to grow my business. And the main reason is that we fear failure. We fear that. What will people think of us if we don't hit those goals? And that was very real for me and I can, that was my fear as well. And I think everyone could relate to that.
DR: 07:44 The funny thing about that is that no one actually cares. We think that all the world is, is looking at us and spying on us and going to critique us and be critical and all those sorts of things and looking for us to fail. They don't actually care that much. They're all busy getting on with their own world and they've got their own things to deal with and their own businesses to grow and their own. They're very busy. Everyone's very busy in their own worlds. So we put way too much emphasis on what will people say if I, if I declare out loud that I want to grow a black belt business or I want to turn over a hundred thousand dollars in the next 12 months, what if I fail and I only get to 80, what will they think? They don't care. And in any case, if you've set a goal to, to turn over a hundred thousand dollars and you get to 80, hey, high five, I think you've done pretty well. Uh, you're more like, the reality is that you're more likely to try to achieve $80,000 if you set a goal for a hundred.
MP: 08:56 Yeah, absolutely. And the fear of this is can be just really all-encompassing.
DR: 09:00 Yes, yes. Because we, we bring it all that, that fear of failure about setting goals, we feel it's a reflection of our character. So we really internalize it and personalize it and, and all of that. And it's, you've got to stop doing that because it's not that, it's not a judgment of your character, you know, it's nothing to do with that. It's a problem, a vision of where you want to be. And um, I've heard Peter, and I've heard you say Michael as well, that it's a bit like if you decide you're going on a holiday or vacation somewhere and you pack up the suitcases, you get all your holiday things in your pack, the kids in the car, and you actually don't know where you're going and you end up just dried well pie ways and through valleys and all around and all. But you actually, you don't know where you're going because you, you haven't set the destination, the GPS. So the cars just driving around without any destination. And that is the best metaphor I've ever heard for describing what it's like when you don't set goals.
MP: 10:12 Yeah, fair. Very frustrating. For sure. Yeah. Not a very enjoyable vacation to be driving around aimlessly.
DR: 10:28 Yeah. and the other, the other thing that we can struggle with as well, I'd mentioned earlier that half the day at the beginning of the year was spent reviewing how I went in the year before. And that can be challenging. It's in itself, it's all great if you've hit your goals, but if you haven't hit your goals, it can be very well-identified in quite a lot of detail where you went wrong, you know, what, what, what did actually go wrong. Um, when you, uh, did you, why didn't you visit all those accountants that you said you were going to visit? What is it that you're afraid of? Identifying those sorts of things that are facing your fears as well. And that can be challenging. So it makes you feel a little bit uncomfortable when you review how you've gone and whether you've hit your target and a, and I could, so I can understand why people are reluctant to actually, it's, it's like ignorance is bliss in a way, but it's not actually, it's, it's dangerous.
DR: 11:32 It is dangerous and it, and it's actually one that can be both sides of the sword. You could be either living in a fantasy that, oh, I had a great year or you could also be self-deprecating. Say I didn't accomplish enough and I am not. I'm not going anywhere. And so living in ignorance to what's really on and doing a cost
DR: 11:54 analysis, you could be, you know, suffering from that. Yes. Yes. And bookkeepers know this specifically because they spend the whole week their whole lives working with clients, trying to show them what the facts are, trying to make the clients aware of what the dollars are saying, what the numbers are saying. So we talking to bookkeepers, they know this, they know that they need to know the facts because they talk to their clients, they set their clients down. And say, you need to don't know this. You need to know that your debtors are this. They've blown out to 90 days. You, you need to know that, that you won't be able to pay your bills in three months. You've got to pay your stat that. So they sit down all day long with their clients, giving them facts, empowering them around their finances, but they're not doing it in their own businesses.
DR: 12:46 It's a really curious thing, it that. That's where when we talk about working, working on the business, it's, it's starting to think like you are the business owner. I need instructions from myself. So there are times where the bookkeeper comes to you and you have a meeting with the bookkeeper. You're the business owner, you're the one who owns the bookkeeping business, and your bookkeeper comes to you and says, Dad, you need to look at these facts. I'm concerned about these numbers. And if you don't review that and spend time, I know it's busy. I know lives are busy and time just flies. This year we'll be going before we even know it. So if you don't take the time, you won't be at to review how you've gone. You won't be able to make those critical, strategical adjustments in a timely manner along the way the, as the months go past.
DR: 13:40 So that the outcome for Vishy will be what you plan. You've really got to set that time aside. Absolutely. And so where does someone start and put the line in the sand as can we get to that line in the sand? I think so. If you are a startup practice, maybe you don't have any clients, maybe you've got a half a dozen clients, work out what you know, you'd know what your charge out rate is now and how much you're earning with those clients. Or if you are, if you are starting up and you have no clients at all, then you need to set a goal of what turnover you want to achieve by what amount of time. And, and that, of course, will depend. It's personal. So my goals are not your goals. I don't want what you want. You don't want what I want. It's all about you and what you, your needs are for your family.
DR: 14:35 When I was starting my business, I as said earlier that I had a job as an employee. Now I was working at the time and originally I was working five days a week, but I managed to cut that down to four and then to three as I started to get more clients, but I kept my day job because I needed to bring in a certain amount of money in my, with my family into the household to help support I, my husband was the breadwinner, but I still needed to help support the family, so I worked out that my first foot goal, my very first goal was to replace the income that I earned from the day job now that I 10 years ago or so was not a lot of money, but it was a lot. Then it was put in perspective. It was what it was then, but I still needed to replace that income.
DR: 15:24 I wasn't prepared to quit that job until I replaced that income and besides it was my backup plan. If it all failed, then I still had my day job to fall back on and it took me 12 months. Now in those days, this is before I met Peter Cook, I'd, that was the only goal I set, so I didn't have the three-year goal or a five-year goal. I just thought, let's see how this goes and instead of gold to replace that income, and I did that in about 12 months. That was, that was working at nights and weekends and any spare time that I had because I had the job during the day and I had children and a family to run as well. So I did it slowly. I took my time, but I replaced that and then then I was able to quit that job.
DR: 16:10 One of the challenges around that is, of course, you've got to work harder for a period of time because your, you're working at nights and weekends and I think the other thing is a goal needs to be something that makes you feel a little bit uncomfortable. It's a little bit of a stretch, but it's not completely unreasonable because if it's completely out there, then it's going to be too far off and you'll get, you'll get overwhelmed and, and things won't work. When or when things don't work, you'll quite so heavy. It is something that you feel is attainable and makes you feel a little bit excited, a little bit nervous, but you think, Gee Whiz, if all the planets aligned and I really concentrate and focus on what I need to do, I think that's actually a doable goal. And as I said, if you, if you set a goal to turn over $100,000 and only reach it in, in 12 months, which is also, by the way, a doable goal, I think you'd be doing pretty well and you could give yourself a pat on the back for that.
MP: 17:19 Yeah, absolutely.
MP: 17:26 Deb, you know, how does one set a tie, I mean, you had a coach, is that you set aside the time to actually figure this stuff out. How does the listener right now say, hey, you know, how do I get started doing this?
DR: 17:40 Yeah, I think it's great to have a buddy, you know, you could have almost a board meeting if you like, or a buddy or whatever you'd like to call it. And certainly when you're starting up, getting a business coach is a, is a considerable expense and there are other ways that you can do that. But I think it's the accountability that's critical when you're setting goals. And I'm, I've said for years that I believe the reason I did achieve what I did was because of the accountability and the support that I, that I had with Paige. So if you have someone in your life now, it might be your spouse, it might be your husband or wife, it could be another family member, it could be a close friend who maybe has a little bit of business sense about them, understands what it's like to run a business that would be helpful and have a monthly meeting with that person.
DR: 18:33 So when, once again, I'll go back to the role of the bookkeeper, when you do finish your monthly processing for that client, you, you should be, and I'm, I'm expecting that you would be sitting down with that client and talking to them about the numbers and educating them about them and telling them whether they've achieved their target for that month and things like that. You need to have the same sort of meeting with yourself, but if you really want to raise the bar of accountability, then have it with someone else. Set the goals with someone else present so that they are aware of the goals that you've set and that that in itself raises the accountability. I'm using another analogy if you want to get fit, it's always, it's more fun actually if you've got a buddy to get fit with and they also make you accountable. DR: 19:27 So if it's a, if you say yes, I'm going to go for a walk three mornings a week and we're going to meet at six o'clock in the morning before everyone gets up and we'll walk for half an hour. If when the winter sets in and things get tough or you've had a late night or things that disturb, if you are on your own, if you, if you're just doing it on your own, then it's very easy to just roll over in bed and pull the blankets up and go, oh no, it's too cold. I won't do that. But if you know that your friend is standing on good for you to meet you on that corner, then you'll move mountains. You'll just drag yourself out of bed regardless of how you feel. So raising the bar of accountability, that's what happens when you have a buddy or a mentor or someone that you absolutely trust who will be able to guide you a little bit along the way.
DR: 20:21 Give you some advice and support as well when things go wrong. I think that that's a good strategy. It's also, as I said, a lot more fun. You're not on your own. It can be very isolating, growing a bookkeeping business. It's, it's you, it's you doing the work. It's you trying to create it all. It's you trying to do where all your different leadership and hats and marketing and HR, if you're recruiting and all of that, it's, it's, it can be challenging. Anything worthwhile is challenging, but you can make it easier for yourself so you don't have to, it doesn't have to be all hard work buddy up with someone, get a mentor or friend, family, but who can make you accountable. And the other really important thing is to be very, very specific about your goals.
MP: 21:10 Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. No, no. Deb, I want to just point out something there that um, you mentioned, which is the overarching theme here is don't do it alone. Yeah. Don't do it alone. Yeah. Eh, doing it alone. I am going to guess the whole audience here listening if we've all done it alone for big parts of our life and when we stopped doing it alone, things go a lot better. And so finding that person in your life, whoever it is, is Deb mentioned, I find somebody who's trying to get somewhere and is passionate about getting somewhere and join up with them and, and work together to figure this out. I want to say that we do have an excellent resource in our community resources. So as people may or may not know listeners, we are offering a lifetime membership to the successful bookkeeper community.
MP: 22:07 And in that you get a whole bunch of benefits and all sorts of awesomeness. Uh, one of those pieces is an action plan. So a lot of the things that Deb's talking about, uh, we have that in the action plan. And guess what? Did they come from Deb, because this book, The Successful Bookkeeper was written about you Deb, right? And you are the successful bookkeeper. And so I want to point that out and all you need to do is go to Thesuccessfulbookkeeper.com sign up for a membership of the community and get access to that. And you'll find that resource as well as a whole bunch of other great resources inside of that. To get started. And it's a, it's a roadmap. It's a guide to get you started. So you could find a, a partner or someone in your BNI or the chamber or your friends, family, whatever it is, get together with them, start working on this right away. Absolutely. That's a great opportunity. Yeah. And I want it to just make sure we pointed that out because this is, these are some of the goals that you worked with when you were working with Peter and we put this in the book. So yes, great stuff.
MP: 23:06 And the second thing as a I mentioned, um, was that they needed to be very specific goals and that includes a date. So you need to, so for example, this year, by the, by December this year or whenever you're listening to this podcast, set a date, uh, 12 months from now about where you want to be. It's 12 monthly goals, three to five-year goals are also important. They're the big picture ones, especially the five-year goal. So you might be starting up now, but in five years you want to be at a black belt, which is very doable. That's a great goal to having five, five to six you might find you'll get there in four but if you, if you set it for five years, getting to black belt, that's a very achievable goal. Then when you've set those three, those three goals, 1212 months, three years, five years, come back and then say, okay, if this is where I want to be in 12 months, what do I need to do in the next month?
DR: 24:08 So Ham and that will include things like yours, there'll be a turnover you want to aim for, but turnover think go backward and think what, what do I do to get that turnover? Well, it's obvious it's your bookkeeping. So how many hours a week are you going to add each week? And in order to add on that, those hours you need to do your marketing. So going backward, it's like rewinding the tape. This is, we've set the picture of where you want to be. Now rewind at what do I need to do this month, this week, this day to help me achieve my goals in 12 months' time? And, and that will be marketing because if you're going to go from startup to white belt, which is turning over a hundred thousand Michael, is that correct?
MP: 24:56 Yeah, I actually, yeah, it was a, a thing I wanted to bring come back to and I was actually just thinking how do I, uh, it's a little off-topic now, but it was way back in the beginning. You talked about a white belt, black belt, that you actually went to a black belt. So basically there is a white belt, which is $100,000 out right up to the black belt, which is $500,000 and it's a real or, or more plus you got it. You got it. And it's fantastic. This was put together by you and Pete and this really is a blueprint. It's the bookkeeping business blueprint of which you can get on the successful bookkeeper in the successful bookkeeper community as well. To sort of look at, well, what is it that you need to be doing at 100,000? What do you need to be doing to get up to that 200,000 and when you're at 200,000, what is it that you need to do there?
DR: 25:54 Yeah. and I'm glad you mentioned that because, and to clarify that for the listeners, it's a fabulous little one-page document that you can pin up on your wall or you know, save it as your screen saver or something like that. And you can just be looking at it and referring to it. And that's, that's when we talk about a business plan. There's your business plan on a page, essentially. It's already built for you. It's already built. Um, you, you put that up on your wall and, and when you look up at that, you think, yes, that's right. This is the reason why I'm doing this. This is why I'm pushing through this pain. This is why I'm doing marketing. When I don't feel like it. This is why I'm going to a networking meeting and getting out of bed in the morning and visiting prospects and handing out business cards and all those sorts of things.
DR: 26:42 All the stuff that you, that when we say hard things that you don't feel so comfortable with, and typically bookkeepers aren't comfortable with marketing. There are exceptions, but the majority of bookkeepers don't particularly like marketing, so that's going to be the biggest challenge when you're starting up is to be comfortable, to be okay, that that we're going to say to be comfortable, to be comfortable, to get out of your comfort zone and just do it regardless of how you feel. It's like getting up in the morning, going to exercise regardless of how you feel, regardless of the weather. You don't make excuses. You, you've made a promise, you've made a commitment, you've got a buddy, you've got a person that's depending on you, don't you don't let them down. So be specific. Set aside the goals. Think back, well, how am I going to turn over a hundred thousand dollars in 12 months?
DR: 27:34 I'll need this many clients charging this hourly rate, you know, and then you look at the hourly rate. Well, are you charging enough? Do you need to put up your price? What would, what difference would it make to your goal of getting to 100,000 if you put up your prices, 10 or $15 an hour because you are undercharging just by putting up your prices by that amount of money that could make a significant road towards the, your achieving your goal. You know, it's, it's these little details. I had a KPI report, a so key performance indicator, a report that I completed every month, which said what my turnover was, how many accountants I visited, what new clients I put on, how many new hours I brought in that month. So of the, of the new clients, whether any of them were rescue jobs that the new clients and rescues always ended up, or most of the time ended up being ongoing maintenance clients. So that was a measure of my KPI to make sure that I always had new clients coming on board or I was doing a rescue job. All my staff was doing a rescue job. You need to be tracking this sort of information.
MP: 28:51 Absolutely. And you know, business success is more like growing an award-winning vineyard. You're going to put seeds in the ground, you're going to nurture the sorrow, you're going to build fences, you're going to clip water, clip water for years and years and years until eventually, you'll get to the outcome. There's very little instant gratification and growing an award-winning vineyard. But they do it based on the belief and faith and the knowledge of those that have gone before them, that if they do certain things and follow certain guidelines that they will get to the end gold. And that's why they do it. Business is no different. You plant the seed, you nurture it, you work, you do the work, you do the things you check-in, you keep those that have gone there before and you'll get the outcome that others have achieved.
MP: 29:46 And in fact, building a successful business is so much easier than building an award-winning vineyard. Right? Yes. And that's a little tip to where you are down in Australia with an award, lots of award-winning vineyards down there and a trip to the hat to the farmer that has to work really, really hard to produce the things that we eat and drink and all that good stuff. But this is it, right? So for the listener out there, Deb's given you some gold. We got some gold in the community, start planting seeds, nurture water, bring people around you. Those people, the people are like your fertilizer, right? I get those people around you and, and, and then you need a couple of people who are like the pruners, right? They're the ones that give you the, you were talking about that when we were before we got on the show Deb, the people that gave you the swift kick in a butt, right?
DR: 30:33 It's like you get gotta clip back the buds a little bit. You need that. The plant needs it to grow. So do that.
MP: 30:45 And one thing I want to mention to Deb is that you talked about the blueprint book, e Myth, bookkeeper, fantastic book. In fact, many have said it is the bookkeeping Business Bible. Really, if you haven't read that book, listener, go out, get it. It's awesome. We've got a bunch of resources for that book in the community as well. But Deb spends a whole chapter on that. It's a, it's a blueprint for you building your business. Don't overthink this. Don't try and reinvent the wheel. We've got the people that have gone before you have our sharing debt. People like Deb, Michael Gerber, Peter Cook, you know, they've helped grow businesses like this. Uh, and we're talking in the tens of thousands, you know, don't try to reinvent that wheel, right?
DR: 31:26 Yes. Just, uh, someone has said, I'm just going to do what dad does. That's right. It was done. That's right. And you're a mentor to now hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of bookkeepers all over the world, which is really, really fantastic. Deb, it has been such a pleasure having you again on the podcast and I know I'm going to, uh, reach out again and have your back. Um, but I just really, really sincerely thank you for the listeners. Thank you for giving and donating your time to this, uh, this podcast. It's an absolute pleasure. I, I love sharing this information. Thanks very much for having me, Michael.
MP: 31:50 Yeah, our, our pleasure. All the way that wraps another episode of The Successful Bookkeeper podcast. To learn more about today's guest and to get access to all sorts of valuable free business-building resources, you can go to Thesuccessfulbookkeeper.com
MP: 32:17 and until next time, goodbye.