Are you looking for clients?
If you're just starting your bookkeeping business then you might be.
If you're already up and running then maybe you'd like to add some more business.
A way to do it other than spending thousands of dollars on marketing is to get referrals.
How do you do that?
Our returning guest, Melissa Lenos of King Accounting Solutions, knows how to master this fine art.
She never spends money on advertising because her revenue comes strictly from referrals only.
During this interview, you'll learn...
-
How to turn a conversation with your client's accountant into a new referral partnership
-
Why you should have lunch and learns with senior managers at accounting firms
-
How to leverage BNI to have a 30-50 person sales team for your bookkeeping business
To find out more about Melissa, visit her website.
To investigate The Bookkeepers Referral Machine, click here.
To find out more about The Networking Power Pack, explore this link.
EPISODE TRANSCRIPTION
Michael Palmer: 01:09 Welcome back to The Successful Bookkeeper podcast. I am your host, Michael Palmer, and today is going to be another great episode because we have a terrific returning guest who is the owner of King Accounting and a current Pure Bookkeeping licensee. Welcome back to The Successful Bookkeeper podcast, Melissa Lenos.
Melissa Lenos: 01:28 Thank you, Michael. What a great introduction.
MP: 01:31 Yes, one. Thank you so much for coming back. I know when we had you on before we talked about everything other than what we wanted to talk about, which was networking and business referrals, but before we get into that, on this episode, please, for those that haven't heard your first appearance, can you let the listener know a little bit about yourself and your business?
ML: 01:57 For sure. So I own our 10 accounting solutions and it's based out of Edmonton, Alberta. We go across Canada, so are your clients in Ontario, Saskatchewan, Alberta, and then the northwest territory. And we do most of our stuff remotely. And I started out in an accounting firm, got my training there and did my accounting diploma and then decided that where my love was bookkeeping and helping clients day to day rather than six months after their year-end. And they've done six months more errors in our stuff and we're just doing adjusting entry. So I went into the day by day stuff with them and have loved it and enjoyed it and haven't looked back to the accounting firm.
MP: 02:41 Great. Great. And last time you were on the podcast, you talked a lot about tips on hiring and as I mentioned, I'd love to jump in because I know you've got a lot to share around business referrals, networking and bringing new great people into your businesses. So let's, let's talk a little bit about how you came to find that this was a great way of growing your business.
ML: 03:12 Yeah, so I have never done any advertising at all. I have received all of my clients and work, I was going to count beforehand, but I forgot. Um, I think we are just under a hundred or just one over a hundred clients, um, this quarter. And it's all through referrals. Every single client is either a referral from a client or a referral from an accountant or through BNI.
MP: 03:38 Wow, that's remarkable.
ML: 03:40 Yeah. And we've been doing this since 2008, so no, no advertising and no cost for that. Of course, we have a website and we have cards and that kind of thing, but no actual like print advertising.
MP: 03:53 Well I love that you mentioned that and often people think of business cards and websites as the main driver of business, but they're not drivers of a business. They are simply tools to help people evaluate who you are and why they should work with you. So the business card is, well here's my card, that's a way to get back in touch with me once you've connected with somebody or something like along those lines. But a website that really is the tool in this industry, especially for all of the listeners, very important is this is the tool that helps a person who's been referred to Melissa, for instance, evaluate and make a further business decision. So it's supporting the referral. So as long as the referral and sometimes for you, Melissa, I'm sure don't even, they don't even care, they just come and work with you because you have such powerful referrals coming from your partners in the industry. But for, for a lot of situations, someone refers you business and then the next step is, oh well I'm going to go have a look at their website. And that's just an evaluation. It helps support whatever that person who referred you and help support that message that they gave and reassures them that, yeah, this is a good decision to go and check out or to do business with Melissa over here at King Accounting. So talk a little bit about how, what you've seen, your process of these referrals, how, how does it look today for you?
ML: 05:22 Um, well, most, most of the processes, just having that first initial phone call with the client, the website, my website is a little bit out to date. We're actually working on a, an update right now. So if you look at my website, it says that I'm a sole practitioner, but I have three bookkeepers that works for me two full time and one part time. But that website still gives them an idea of what our mission statement is, our outlook of the bookkeeping world and what we want to do for the client. So we've very much based everything what the client needs, not what we're to give the client or what we want to give all the clients. So we take the first initial phone call just to see where they're at, what they're looking for, and then help them understand how we can help them with the things that they need. And sometimes that evolves with time that they realized that they'd rather we do everything for them. And sometimes it just sticks with only doing payroll or, or whatever it might be. But that first initial phone call of listening to them and understanding what they want is how we turn those referrals into business.
MP: 06:37 Yeah, so questioning and asking what they're, where they're at, what's going on, hey, what's going on? I mean, it's really a great situation because when they're calling you, it really puts you into a position where you can be the trusted advisor, you can be the doctor, if you will. You know, a person goes to the, to the, the doctor, they have a problem. Then the doctor sits down and says, okay, tell me about your problems. Right. It's just, okay, here we go. Whereas if you're, if it's the opposite, if the doctor was outgoing in the street, finding people to work with, it'd be kind of weird because they'd be saying, Hey, you know, I help people fix problems. What is your problem? You know? It was like, hey, why are you, I got no problems and I'm good. So you've been able to have people coming to you with their problems. Why do you think that's been so powerful for you?
ML: 07:28 Well, and most of these referrals are coming from the accountants. So the accountant of having a new business walk in the door, they're doing a year-end. They're seeing problems, they're seeing that they're charging double or triple what they should be charging for a notice to the reader. And then they're able to then give my information to that client and be like, this is how we can help you save money and get inflammation now rather than after the fact and help you build your business to the next step, which is what most people want to do, right? They don't want to just have enough money in the bank account. They want to grow it to something that they can maybe sell in the future. And that's what we're there to help from us.
MP: 08:09 Yeah. And these, these relationships that you built with accountants, obviously you worked in that industry, you worked, that was that. Tell us a little bit about that, but I'm thinking that was a, a good start for you.
ML: 08:23 It was a good start. So by working in the industry, I, I know what the accountants need to be able to do that notice to reader or review or audit statements. All of our files go the same. Everything's PDFs. The accountant doesn't even get the box of records. They only get the PDF. So we send them and usually, there's a question or two, but they don't even need to go through the book, the actual documents because everything's there that they need to do. The statement that they've been engaged to do. It did help having worked in the cause. I laughed in a very positive note and the partner, my mentor in the firm that I was with still continues to be my mentor and we worked really well together in that he gave me a lot of bookkeeping clients at the beginning and that just continued to grow my business by him doing that. And now I have such an easy ability to speak to accountants. So a one-off client comes in with a new accountant and the first thing I do once we finish the year-end and get adjusting entries is make a phone call and meet with them so that they realize that we're not just a one-person bookkeeping firm and we're looking for more work until that just grows the referrals.
MP: 09:38 Amazing. So if, if somebody did not have these kinds of relationships already, what's your recommendation?
ML: 09:46 Um, so if they have like one, um, bookkeeping file that they are already doing, it may be a good place to start with some examples. Like, get rid of the information. You don't want to be showing other accountants but use it to show what their work is like and just get in front of them, offer to do lunch and learns for the managers. You don't even have to always get in front of the partners of the firm. The partners are dealing with high-end stuff. Um, the managers, the senior managers are the ones you want to be in front of because they're the ones talking day today was clients and are the ones that are going to be referring to you that work.
MP: 10:23 That's really cool. So a lunch and learn what would you do on a lunch and learn for accountants.
ML: 10:30 So I would say sit down and just have a small short presentation, but it allows them to ask questions as well and just show them what your plan is with your clients, what you do for them and, and show how the package that they're going to get as the accounting firm so that they see the potential of, of how this could help their clients.
MP: 10:53 I love it. I love it. I know with, uh, the pure bookkeeping system and our, our program for helping people build relationships with accountants, it's more of the, the theme is more of a one on one. But I love your spin on actually going in and doing a lunch and learn with the larger firm where there's a whole bunch of people in the, in the, in the firm and potentially getting, you know, two or three, four up upwards of people that can learn about what it is that you do and why you're, why you're great at what you do and how it helps them and their business.
ML: 11:24 Yup. Yup. Yeah. I would do it with the larger firms, but as long as there are two or three managers and some partners like you can do it for any size, right. Cause even if the preparers are the ones also him and the lunch and learn and they may be able to ask some questions that will make your managers think about it. Right. So,
MP: 11:44 Yeah, absolutely. And it really is a process of building a relationship. So it's not like a one and done. It's, you may not get to going in and doing a lunch and learn. It might be meeting the, the admin staff. It might be meeting the front of the house people like you say, some of the managers, some of the partners eventually. But if you keep nurturing and inquiring and knocking on the door and you know, building that relationship, eventually you get to the point where people know who you are and they trust you and they're willing to refer business over to you. If they don't know you and never have known you, it's going to be very difficult for them to say, Oh yeah, let's just refer that business out. So, um, uh, and that goes for every single piece of business that you're trying to do in any area of business. If you're trying to get on new clients, it's all about nurturing relationships.
ML: 12:39 Yes. And I've never been to an accounting firm that wasn't looking for a bookkeeper to be able to refer to.
MP: 12:46 Yeah, that's, absolutely. We call, obviously we're, we're, we're looking for bookkeepers to speak with and people who are doing bookkeeping. And so calling accounting firms, uh, often we're talking to accounting firms in there. Well we, we don't have a bookkeeping arm, but we're looking for bookkeepers and it's, it never fails to surprise me because I think, Geez, you know, it's like just a couple of calls and there's a business out there waiting for people. So if anybody doesn't have a business, this is a place to start looking and building, right? It's not like it's an instant win, but it's something that if you put the energy and time into, we'll pay back big as you've seen Masa.
ML: 13:23 Yes, totally.
MP: 13:30 So this has been
MP: 13:32 referrals from accountants and, and that's one of the very best ways to, to get referrals. And I want to talk just before we get into the next one a little bit about why referrals are so much better than advertising. And likely if you were to go out and spend a bunch of money on advertising, you'd be very disappointed because what happens when you're advertising is that you, you put out a signal and people go, oh look, there's an advertisement. Maybe I'll check them out. So they'll come along back and they'll say, Hey Melissa, I saw your ad and you know how, how much do you charge is likely going to be one of the questions that come up because they're going to be people that have no prior context of why you are great or why your valuable. Whereas a referral, a referral from an accountant referral from a great client, they're, they're saying to that person, you're awesome.
MP: 14:28 They are edifying you. And that's a big word. But basically, they're making you seem like a big deal cause you are because they love working with you and they're sharing that with someone that they know, like, and trust themselves. And they say, you've got to work with Melissa. So that person comes to you and says, Hey, you know, I heard you're great. Tell me more. And you go, well tell me all your problems. And that's why those convert into being great clients and why they convert likely and to being high paying clients because of that. So referrals are paramount in this industry. They're paramount in likely every industry. So let's talk about how you generate referrals in other areas. In number one, I know we've talked in the past is a, B and I, and we had Ivan Meisner that was actually a recommendation from you to say, Hey, like let's, let's talk about this. And we went right to the top and we got Ivan Meisner who founded BNI business networking international. And so thank you for that. And so, and we actually wanted to talk about it in our first episode, but we with you, but we didn't so talk, let's talk about how you nurture in BNI and give people a little bit of context if they haven't listened to that episode with Ivan.
ML: 15:42 Yeah, for sure. So I've done BNI twice now. The first time I did it and it was a fun part because shirt, um, and I went into a BNI group, very green on owning a business, but it was great because it's all like-minded businesses that want to refer to each other. So the whole idea of BNI for those that don't know B and I is that it's very rural oriented, but the rules are there for a reason. So it's the weekly meeting. So it's a lot of commitment. But that commitment allows you to get to know everyone in your group very well. So you have that trust factor. The first thing that gives you a good referral is having a trust factor. So you spend once a week in that day, you, um, then cultivate those relationships by meeting with people that used to call it dance cards. They call it one-to-one for now after you spend time learning about their business and the name bite you to learn about your business.
ML: 16:44 So it's getting to know how to be a salesperson for everyone in your group because everyone in your chapter is your sales team. They are out there, they're listening for those key things that you've told them. So for a bookkeeper, it's, Oh man, I spent so much on my year-end or I just don't know if I made any money. So those things are the keys to listen to, to be able to refer a bookkeeper to your teaching, the 30 or 45 or 50 people in your chapter, how to listen for those triggers to be able to refer you. And that's huge to have 50 people out there talking about your business when they hear those cues that you taught them to listen for. And then the referrals are not cold calls, they're, I've talked to this person, I've told them there that you're going to phone them and this is the reason you need to phone them. And so you get to know the customer that been referred to you before you even make that phone call. So you know how to have that call and that meeting to help them the way they're looking to be helped. And it's just unbelievable. Last month alone, I think over 50% of my revenue was a referral-based out of BNI.
MP: 18:00 Unbelievable. And really, I don't think people jump right to the power of a BNI group. Like you say, the 40 salespeople working for your business. And I've heard people complain about the amount of time that it takes to, to work in a BNI, right? Cause you're meeting once a week. It's, it's every single week. And there it's a commitment, right?
ML: 18:27 It is a huge commitment. And the first time I was in Vietnam, I lasted two years and I couldn't accept any more referrals. So I ended up having to leave the group. I then built the business that I have now. So there's four of us in the bookkeeping and one in HR. So I'm in BNI, one of my other bookkeepers and Lindy and I and my HR person's in BNI. So we all work very closely with all three BNI groups. We are there to sub for each other when we're not available so that we meet all of those people. So we actually have like 70 people out there that know our business.
MP: 19:06 It's amazing.
MP: 19:14 So it's a big, huge time, time commitment. But if you were to think about having to have a sales organization of 70 people and to be able to train all of those people and employ all those people to work for you, I mean it would be astronomical. So the, the amount of time you put into BNI is just a tiny little speck of sand compared to the amount of potential that really does exist. And so I just love the way you've approached it, which is very serious, very intentional. And you've made it work because it's there for people to make work. But if you don't do the work, it's not going to work.
ML: 19:54 Exactly. And another good thing to remember is that it takes six months minimum to get what they call a VCP. So that's that visibility, the trust to be able to start getting those referrals.
MP: 20:08 Yeah
ML: 20:09 Because you walk in and now I'm a trusted advisor cause I'm now with BNI. It doesn't work that way.
MP: 20:15 No, for sure. And nor should it. I mean, if we think about it, right? If, if, if you, as a person listener, you're a listener right now, you're sitting there thinking, who are you? Would you refer anybody that you didn't really know that well? So no one's gonna do the same for you either. So you've got to get to know these people, you've got to build trust, you've got to help educate them as to what your value proposition is. And the way Melissa said it so well is to train them on how to find a great referral for you. That's beautiful. And I don't know that I've heard anyone say it that clearly the way that you actually have Melissa, which is listening for these cues and really train your people to actually be able to make a, create a referral. And because guess what, if you're not a bookkeeper, you have no idea what a good referral looks like. So unless you're teaching people to listen for these types of cues, I mean it's a no brainer.
ML: 21:13 Exactly. And it's a great way for new bookkeepers to get out there and be seen by your community. And, and you do have to speak every week, but it's 30 to 60 seconds. We can all make it through 30 to 60 seconds and you pre-write down your, your speech. And if you're not good with people, you put it in front of your face and you read it out. You don't need to pay attention to anyone else. It's just getting your information out there and then it's all one on one type of stuff. So it's a great way to build your business.
MP: 21:45 Absolutely and you know what you say, we've got all sorts of bonuses and whatnot inside The Successful Bookkeeper. If you go to Thesuccessfulbookkeeper.com and you go into the free resources, we've got lots of resources around networking, some really great stuff. We have a networking power pack that we charge money for, but it's, it's $19 you get a whole bunch of scripts and things to say and all that good stuff. But we actually have a video inside the, the resources section that talks about all of it. So if you didn't want to to pay the $19 you'll get like 80% of it for free. So get in there and get that. And I'm going to put a couple of links on this episode for sure. The first one being our video that we talk about building relationships with accountants. We call it the bookkeeper referral machine because literally when Melissa has built here is a machine, a machine that pumps business into your, into your new business, into your business every single month.
MP: 22:46 And for a lot of it, it's based on stuff that you've done in the, in the past. So it's literally you're not doing any more work for those things. You're just nurturing and maintaining the machine. You know, putting a few drops of oil here on this wheel and maybe tightening that bolt over there on that wheel and it runs and you just have to maintain. And so yes, lots of work in the beginning, but once you've done that, you've got leverage. So we call that the bookkeeper referral machine. There's a great video in the resources for you to check out. And then as well this a networking power pack which has some scripts and different things that will really help the lesser for you, the listener goes out and do these things. But I think Melissa you've given some great things and I'm going to, I'm going to, uh, I'm going to dig deeper for some more gold here cause I absolutely love it. So let's say that you are sitting down for a coffee meeting and that's what they call them co no, it was a one-on-one, right? It used to be called One-on-one. It's One-on-one. So this is where you've sat down with the people that in your BNI, let's say it's a brand new person that they've just come, they've never been to the BNI before their new member. Walk me through what that meeting looks like.
ML: 23:58 So you only ever do one side at the meeting. So you always want to set up two separate meetings, one to talk about yourself and want to talk about them. So if you invite then it's talking about them, it's understanding their business inside and out and learning those cues. So ambient either is a form that you can fill out that it asks the questions to help you work through the one-on-one. So in that, it talks about where are your phone, what kind of training you have. I'm just going to pull one out. So that night's in front of me. What you're looking for in a client, your accomplishments, your interests, what networks you deal with. And then it's talking about who's your power team. So BNI is huge on power teams. It's getting that three or four or maybe even 10 people together. So an example for my five bookkeepers, accountants, a financial planner in a management consultant for an electrician.
ML: 25:00 It's a house builder, an electrician, a plumber, a general contractor, those kinds of things. So it's that power team where they can work together, trust each other explicitly and be able to refer out. So that's a huge way to build a business. So in the package that you get to do a BNI or a one-to-one, it lists all these things and makes you think about them so that you can have that conversation and have a good meeting in that half an hour, 45 minutes or an hour, whatever you've booked to make sure that person understands your business and, and have set up these great forms to make sure you talk about the right thing and don't get sidetracked.
MP: 25:48 I just love that. I love it. And I think it's for, for, for those listening, I think what I would imagine is that this makes it a lot less daunting if you've never done something like this before, it really is, it's uncomfortable, right? Cause it's something new, but you're really mapping it out in a way that, you know, it step by step, everything is there. All you need to do is show up and someone is going to guide you along. Likely.
ML: 26:13 Yes, exactly. Exactly.
MP: 26:15 That's wonderful. And I love this concept of the power team as well. And I don't think enough people talk about it. I've heard it before and I think it's amazing, right? When you think about the way that you get business in any business, there are typically the key factors. It's like that's how it's a best, where my best referral came from over here and you just mentioned a few of them, right? It's as if there are a few people, like a maybe a bank manager or person who is interacting with your ideal customer and if you can each help each other grow your network and grow your lead referrals. I mean it's just, it makes so much sense.
MP: 26:53 One, it's also working outside the box. So like a great referral network for me is the construction team because they work with a ton of people that are subcontractors that need their books done. So I need to talk to those people because they're a great resource to get me good referrals.
ML: 27:12 Yeah, absolutely.
MP: 27:15 And so getting outside that box,
MP: 27:17 and you don't know until you're going to get out there and start looking around and finding these opportunities. I mean, there's nothing, there was nothing written down where it said, Hey Melissa, go do this. You had to discover that through just the, the act of, of building your network and going through the process and belonging to be an I
ML: 27:34 Yup.
MP: 27:36 Fantastic. Well, this is been great. I think I'm going to end on one last question for you here, which is, as you started to allude to, for many bookkeepers, confidence is a problem, right? And they might not feel completely confident to go into a room and meet all these new people. What would be your recommendation for, for building that confidence?
ML: 28:03 Ah, well you can, it depends where you are, right? Uh, the chambers are always good. The Rotary clubs are always good. If you're in a smaller community, it's a little less daunting. You walk into the Edmonton Chamber of commerce and there are 500 people there, it's a little bit more daunting. You walk into the Laduc Rotary Club and there are 20 people there and they just want to have a conversation. It's a lot easier, but I think walking into any networking meeting, you need to go, I'm going to talk to three people and I'm okay with only talking to three people. I don't need to hand out 500 business cards when I walk in the room, I need to talk to three people, get a relationship build, and then the next meeting, next month it'll be three different people. Or maybe you're good with five, whatever it might be, right? So start with small goals but always make goals and that'll help you get through. Not Feeling the confidence, but it's understanding. And I went through it as well. I didn't feel confident and, and the partner that mentored me is just looked at me and said, you can do it and you're going to do it by yourself. So it's just having the right people around you to give you that confidence builder. And I think the successful bookkeeper is very helpful with that too. The Facebook page and being able to just, everyone's there for everyone.
MP: 29:23 I love it. Thank you. And for you, listeners, right now, you can do it and you're going to do it yourself. So go do it. Go do it. You can hear from Melissa that this stuff is gold. It works. But yes, it will be daunting. So just go do it and you can leverage the wise uh, mentor that Melissa had to actually go and do it yourself if you haven't already. Well, Melissa, this has been absolutely fantastic. Please share how people can get more information or connect with you if they'd like to.
ML: 30:03 For sure. So there is a website that is in the middle of rebuilding, but the old one is there so that Kingaccounting.ca um, they can give me a call. So it's 70804465901 or more. Or they can email me, So it's Melissa@kingaccounting.ca
MP: 30:23 Beautiful. And we will put all of those links for Melissa into our show notes as well. We'll have a link to the Ivan Meisner who founded BNI and I forget the stats on how many BNI's, but it's absolutely reduced like 8,000 BNI chapters, I think in the world. It's crazy.
MP: 30:42 Across the world.
ML: 30:43 It might be 12,000 actually. It's massive. It really is massive. So that means it works because if it didn't work, people wouldn't be participating in it. So, uh, I can't say enough about it in terms of helping you grow your business. This is a place to be focusing on. Accountants and BNIs are great networking groups like that are fantastic. So good. Go do it.
ML: 31:05 That's right. And, and just remember to always stay with what you believe in
ML: 31:10 my company is.
ML: 31:11 Do what you do, asked and outsource the rest.
MP: 31:15 I love it. I love it. Thank you, Melissa. Thanks for being on today.
ML: 31:19 Thank you.
MP: 31:20 That wraps another episode of The Successful Bookkeeper podcast. To learn more about today's guests and to get all sorts of valuable free business-building resources, you can go to Thesuccessfulbookkeeper.com. Until next time, goodbye.
